Fart In a Car (An Honest Critique of Atheist Communication Skills)

This was written to one, but it applies to MANY.

Dear Atheist Roach Clowns in the comment’s section…

I’m not trying to be mean here, but you seem to need an honest critique of your communication skills far more than you need a reply to any of your comments.

I’ve figured out why other bloggers get sick of conversing with you. You constantly toss in these little digs like you’re just trying to see HOW rude you can be before people get sick of you. It’s like you want to see how many times you can fart in my car before I stop and let you out.

And I’m stopping. Get out.

I hope you’re not going to whine about it as if I have something wrong with ME to not want to drive around in a cloud of stank. You can walk home. Go ahead, play the victim if you can stomach it. I intend to breathe air, and not this metaphysical toots.

I’m going to Target for a metaphysical air freshener.

READ THE SIGN, people.

Your entire game is to make blanket statements with NO defense, no evidence, and NO CASE AT ALL for the truth of what you claim, and then you reject anything I site BECAUSE IT DEFENDS MY POSITION.

That is the very definition of the “No True Scotsman Fallacy”. You’re like a lawyer trying to claim that the judge should toss out all of the evidence which doesn’t make YOUR case. THAT’S NOT HOW IT’s DONE. Evidence ought to be evaluated on its own merits, not admitted only if it makes the case you have already decided on. And you want to pretend YOU are on the side of REASON and SCIENCE and HISTORY? Far from it, you are the poster-child for all that kills actual inquiry into truth. You are what keeps evolution in textbooks and Democrats in office. Time to learn and grow, my friend.

Let me make some suggestions to help you improve:

1. Stop being rude. 

This passive aggressive nonsense only makes you seem like a jerk and a coward. You’re not even criticizing me for what I have said and done- you’re mainly throwing barbs at what you EXPECT me to do because I am (you presume) an idiot/religious/irrational/etc. If you are actually incapable of understanding what I am saying here- if you are seriously tempted to ask me “When was I rude?” or “How is that passive aggressive or rude?”- then find someone who is capable of normal human communication and have them proof read for you. And maybe get evaluated for autism or something. I’m not going to try to prove to you what ought to be obvious to you already. Read your comments and think about how you would receive them from someone else.

Your personal attacks are no more persuasive than a fart in a car, and no more welcome.

2. MAKE A CASE. 

If you make a statement of fact, then you already have the burden of proof. MAKE A CASE. Like, right away. Begin making the case WITH THE ORIGINAL STATEMENT. “I think THIS is true, and HERE are some reasons why…” Don’t make me ask.

You are being lazy and far from being persuasive, you are merely making yourself look like an idiot. Again, think about it from my point of view: Your first big shocking revelation to me was that the Jews stole their god from the neighbors, and you have, as of yet, provided not so much as a link to a youtube video supporting this idiot idea. Nothing more than the sound of flatulence in my automobile. I require otherwise.

Instead, you have made several subtle digs about my being too religious/irrational/stupid/stubborn to accept this claim of yours, as if you have decided I can be persuaded by bullying. Or maybe you think I will accept your assertions because of…my need to be accepted by you? In the place of facts, evidence, or reason? Yeah, I’m just going to roll the windows down…

You really ought to be ashamed of yourself, because this is all you have done, and you have left a LOT of comments. What you have NOT done is made a case. FOR ANYTHING. If you REALLY THINK that your position is rational, then support it with reasons or AT LEAST links to supporting evidence. Telling me what character flaw you think I have that keeps me from simply accepting anything you assert is not an argument. It’s the intellectual ghost of burritos gone by.

3. Remember that the validity of an argument is NOT determined by the messenger or medium. 

An argument is determined by the evidence and reason. If ICR is wrong, or if Mark Armitage is wrong, or if JP Holding is wrong, or if any of the other speakers or authors I have sited and linked to are wrong, then they are wrong because they have presented false information or made arguments based on logical fallacies. However, if they have NOT presented false information or made arguments based on logical fallacies then YOU are in error to reject them merely because they have come to a conclusion you do not like. Your feelings about a matter do not determine truth, nor do they invalidate evidence and logical arguments.

Yet emotional backlash is all you have provided in response. You have not given REASON to reject them beyond the fact that they come to a conclusion you don’t like- once again itself a logical fallacy. Use your head and stop reacting like a child. The fresh sent of dirty diapy does not a persuasive argument make. Fill your diaper on your own time. In this car, we hold it like a big boy and use our words, ok? Ok.

4. Ask more questions- as opposed to making these ridiculous, unsubstantiated claims. 

If you have a counter claim, have the courage to come out and make it WITH SUPPORT for your case. If you are ignorant, ask questions and don’t be rude about it. Just ask questions. Right now you’re blending all of these together and it is not flattering to you. When you are trying to argue against a position I don’t hold, all I am hearing is you saying, “I don’t know what you think, but I know you’re wrong.” Maybe you should ask me what I think before you tell me why I’m wrong.

5. Or just stop leaving comments on other people’s blogs. 

Metaphorically, you can fart in your own car as much as you want and you’ll never hear me complain- because I won’t be in your car.

You can say anything you want on your own blog, and I promise I won’t correct you on your blog. I don’t read your blog, so you can stay there and not worry about any of this advice. Unless you want to be taken seriously and understood by people who DO read your blog, if any. I guess in that case this is all still great advice.

And free. I hope you appreciate how much you’re getting for so little.

If you can get some of that corrected so that you can write something worth reading and replying to, I will be happy to respond and answer any questions you may have when I have time to do so.

Don’t give up. With a little work and thought you too can write something worth reading. But you have to be willing to try.

Make me proud.

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137 Responses to Fart In a Car (An Honest Critique of Atheist Communication Skills)

  1. Barabbas Me says:

    “Biblical apologetics made friendly”? Hmm… reading just the titles of some of your posts brother, you may have an issue with self awareness or might need to reevaluate either your attitude or your tag line. There is absolutely no need to “give back” in the coin you receive from atheists or skeptics. If you find you cannot answer with the “friendliness” you have promised in your tagline, just bid adiue to the person and bow out of the argument. In extreme cases where someone is being a “pest” in your comments section, just “exterminate” them by blocking them in your WP settings. We can all disagree without being disagreeable. And by the HS we should be able to share the love and gospel of Jesus without being unchristlike. Not tryingn to be mean, I’m just trying to bring a little correction and “feedback”. Please consider this prayerfully. Have a wonderful day In Christ. – Barabbas

    Like

    • Wait… “reading just the titles of some of your posts”? So, you didn’t read any of my actual content?
      I mean, maybe you have a point, but it’s hard for me to decide that you do if you are replying only to my titles.
      Perhaps you could clarify.
      Thanks BM

      Liked by 1 person

      • Barabbas Me says:

        Don’t worry. I read some of your posts too. Cheers and have a great day

        Like

      • Ok, thank you my friend! Cheers to you also!

        Like

      • The Whyman says:

        Dr. Bob Palindrome’s Lessons in atheistic reasoning #134:
        “Reading and responding to the title of an article us the equivalent to thoughtfully examining the entire article with a thorough understanding of what was being conveyed.”

        Like

      • Sigh… yup.
        I’ve had, on a shocking number of comments, atheists tell me that I am wrong and an idiot AND THAT THEY DID NOT READ THE ARTICLE OR WATCH THE VIDEO. I mean, I kind of expect the knee jerk reply before reading which happens from time to time on emotional issues, but THEY ADMIT IT.
        I always think, while they are typing “I didn’t read/watch this, BUT…” is there not a part of their brain which says, “… maybe I should do that first.”
        But they don’t.
        I mean, I appreciate their honesty, but I am left perplexed none the less.
        thank you for reading and commenting, and remember, Jesus Loves you!

        Like

  2. “Dear Atheist Roach Clowns in the comment’s section…

    I’m not trying to be mean here, ”

    always lovely to see a Christian lie so hilariously. I do enjoy seeing you have no more concern for you god than I do.

    Like

    • Clubby, you sad cat lady in training,
      I’m tempted to edit out your stupid comments again, but instead I want to try and pretend that you’re capable of grade school level discussions and ask a question I expect you will refuse to answer because it demands you think for once:

      WHY do you bother? Why come here and say something stupid that communicates NOTHING except your own hostility and ignorance?

      you make NO POINT.
      you offer NO ARGUMENT.
      You only, in this case, show up to BE THE THING I’m writing about. YOU are the fart in the car, Clubby.
      do you not have any hobbies? Can’t you find a bowling alley? Do you not own golf clubs? Does your laptop not come with solitaire?
      And are you TRULY- REALLY so stupid as to think you have made a point outside of your own bitterness and childishness?
      Just explain to me why you think it’s worth it to show up here and leave a comment which can do nothing but make you look like an idiot. I really want to know why you do it, because I cannot begin to guess as to why you and other people come here to fart in my car.

      Liked by 1 person

      • The Whyman says:

        This meme encapsulates this rather sad reality of the average ‘internet atheist troll’ (or “roach clown”) here: https://www.facebook.com/WHYOutreach/photos/a.1154352441260779/2551326764896666

        Like

      • Entirely accurate. Thanks for sharing!

        Like

      • To help you out, I shared my comment on your blog so you can find it. You’re welcome.

        Like

      • and unsurprisingly, orange can’t address my points, so he must lie and try ever so hard to be insulting.

        happily, my points don’t cease to exist even if orange can’t address them.

        Like

      • I’m not trying to be insulting, Clubby. I’m doing you the favor of being optimistic enough to think it possible that you can justify why you come here to leave dumb comments. For example, I don’t think you’re stupid enough to think you have made any points to address. You know better. I mean you said “always lovely to see a Christian lie so hilariously.”

        Did you say WHAT I lied about? No.
        Did you explain WHY something I said was inaccurate, let alone intentionally so? NO.
        But you got the “hilarious” part right, so you squeaked by with a passing grade.
        So you want me to really believe that you are SO STUPID that you think merely saying that I lied is somehow a POINT that needs ADDRESSING? I don’t think you are that stupid, but you want me to think so, and your comments are always based on presenting yourself in this strange low manner.

        But that said, I want you to explain to me why you do it. Answer my questions, or never comment here again. If you can’t explain why you do it, then very simply you won’t be allowed to:

        WHY do you bother? Why come here and say something stupid that communicates NOTHING except your own hostility and ignorance?
        you make NO POINT.
        you offer NO ARGUMENT.
        You only, in this case, show up to BE THE THING I’m writing about. YOU are the fart in the car, Clubby.
        do you not have any hobbies? Can’t you find a bowling alley? Do you not own golf clubs? Does your laptop not come with solitaire?
        And are you TRULY- REALLY so stupid as to think you have made a point outside of your own bitterness and childishness?
        Just explain to me why you think it’s worth it to show up here and leave a comment which can do nothing but make you look like an idiot. I really want to know why you do it, because I cannot begin to guess as to why you and other people come here to fart in my car.

        I await your thoughtful explanation with eager anticipation.

        Like

      • And here we go again with Orange trying to lie and claim he isn’t trying to be insulting. I do wonder, orange, do you think your god is stupid enough to believe that lie you are tell it too (assuming it exists)? You are trying to be insulting and failing as usual. You are doing no one any favors.

        I do love that all you have are hilarious whines. Evidently, you aren’t able to figure out that someone who comments is saying that what they are commenting *on* is a lie. *Everything* you said in your claims that atheists somehow can’t communicate is a lie. You can’t show that any of your claims are true. You have no evidence, just false claims made to vilify atheists since you cannot show one instance of your accusations being accurate. Is this simply enough put for you, dear?

        now, to amuse myself, I’ll go into far more detail:

        “1. Stop being rude. ”

        Aka “please please don’t show I’m wrong”. Christians try to claim people who show them wrong are “rude”, trying so very hard to hide behind issues of politeness when they can’t defend their baseless claims. This is an attempt to pretend that they are a martyr.

        “2. MAKE A CASE.”

        Atheists makes cases, but the theist must falsely claim they do not, in order to pretend that they do not have to present evidence for their baseless claims. This is simply an attempt to keep the theist’s willful ignorance intact.

        “3. Remember that the validity of an argument is NOT determined by the messenger or medium. ”

        The validity of the argument is based on the evidence presented, and the theist has none. I do love the lie that somehow atheists only come to conclusions because they don’t like the baseless claim made by the theist. This is a common lie by a theist, insisting that atheists only have “feelings” about things, not evidence and reason to counter the lies of the theist.

        “4. Ask more questions- as opposed to making these ridiculous, unsubstantiated claims. ”

        This is the theist desperate hope that the atheist has no evidence and that the atheist can’t know that the theist is wrong. There is no need to ask questions, when the theist’s claim is simply a lie. No one needs to ask questions to give the poor theist the illusion that his nonsense has some validity. Poor orange tries to hope that atheists are ignorant about his claims which they are not. Then he tries so very hard to invoke feelings to convince the atheist that they might look foolish if they counter him. Happily, we don’t look foolish and orange is only appealing to fear and ignorance, like Christianity always does.

        5. Or just stop leaving comments on other people’s blogs.

        again, this is just “please please please don’t show us to be wrong”.

        I guess poor orange can’t comprehend English when he doesn’t want to. Again, I’ve told him why I post rebuttals of his lies, even though I know he is a coward and will try to lie about them or not let them show publically at all. I do it to let him know that someone in the universe knows he is a liar. I will add to that if I know he’s a liar, his god knows too, if it exists. I’m quite happy to be the gadfly. It’s quite easy to block posts. If he has no idea how, I can help him. Alas, there is no fart, there is no car, and orange fails with his choice to lie about others, ignoring his own god. My posts don’t make me look like an idiot at all. That false claim is just the whine of a Christian who can’t counter my points. Poor orange can’t make any points, can’t make any arguments, he just has attempts at being insulting. How curious that he *does* what he accuses me of.

        now, I do wonder if dear orange will allow this post to show since it is not flattering to his motivations at all.

        Like

      • OK, I wasn’t going to do this, because I just want you to answer WHY you waste what fleeting time you have between now and oblivion coming to my blog to tell me you hate me, and I don’t want you to get distracted, because I REALLY want to know how you justify it to yourself if you are an atheist as you claim, so please answer that question first, BUT…

        As I read through this and prepared it for a future installment of “Feedback Friday” (Unedited, so ALL of this original content is going to be posted as the focus on one of my articles- congratulations!) I realized that this raises more questions than it answers, and so I have the optimistic compulsion to ask those questions. So when you are done with the more important question of WHY you do it and how you justify it to yourself as being worth your time and effort, please answer the following questions as well. Thank you.

        Like

      • funny how I have repeatedly answered why I post on Christian blogs showing them to be liars and that their claims are harmful. I do it to eliminate that hate and harm.

        it’s so cute to see a Christian choose to lie repeatedly. I do note that my comments are still in moderation, orange. I do wonder, orange, do you think that your god can’t see your actions here, and the lies you choose to tell? It seems you don’t think it is any more real than I do.

        Like

      • In this comment, you call me a LIAR 16 times. Yet, you never even ATTEMPT to demonstrate that I have in fact lied. So a few questions:
        1. Do you understand the difference between being wrong and lying? In order to claim I have lied, you are implicitly saying that I KNOW THE TRUTH- that I am in my actual beliefs CORRECT- but that I am intentionally presenting ideas I KNOW to be false. Is this what you mean when you call me a liar, or are you just using the word as an emotionally charged way of saying you disagree with me?
        2. If you are saying I am a liar, then are you not also saying that I am ALWAYS right? You are claiming that I am INTENTIONALLY presenting falsehoods, but if I am ALWAYS presenting falsehoods KNOWING THAT THEY ARE FALSE, that means I am right about everything I actually believe.
        3. Does it not occur to you as a valid option that I could just be WRONG? Sincerely mistaken?

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      • “In this comment, you call me a LIAR 16 times.”

        hmmm posted this three times. that’s hilarious.

        I do love the exucses offered by you to try to make your lies anything but. This is what I mean by a liar: someone who makes unsupported, and usually demonstrably false claims for his own selfish benefit.

        I do love how hard you try to twist my words, dear. No, poor orange, I am not saying you are right when you lie. But nice try dear, and such a great example of how deceitful Christians can be.

        Like

      • In this comment, as I said, you call me a liar 16 times.
        Why do you make no attempt to prove that what I have said is false? And why do you not make any attempt to show that I KNEW the statements were false?
        You simply assert with no support that THIS IS A LIE, and THAT IS A LIE. But, why should anyone believe YOU? Can I not just turn around and say of this lengthy comment, ” *Everything* you said in your comment is a lie.”?
        Do you understand the different between making a case for your position (logical argument) and mere unsubstantiated blanket assertions?
        If so, why not make some argument to prove your assertions instead of merely stating them 16 times with no support?

        Like

      • yep, you can definitely try lie again and say “Everything you said in your comment is a lie.” Alas, you won’t be able to show this to be the case since you have nothing, dear orange. Happily, you have yet to show that I’ve done anything like made “unsubstantiated blanket assertions”. do cut and paste those if you want to make claims about me, dear.

        Like

      • Under part 4 you say, “There is no need to ask questions, when the theist’s claim is simply a lie. No one needs to ask questions to give the poor theist the illusion that his nonsense has some validity.”

        1. How do you know it’s a LIE when you haven’t asked any questions?
        2. Are you not here abandoning rationality and logic for smug arrogance when you reject out of hand the very idea that you could have misunderstood me or my position, or that there are facets of either than you don’t already know?
        3. And if you are concerned with accidentally providing validity to my existence (which on your Atheism neither of us would have in any amount) why do you come here and leave comments? Is it somehow MORE validating to educate yourself on what I think than it is to smugly attack it without showing any interest in understanding it?
        4. Most important of all, are you not merely giving yourself the excuse of being intentionally RUDE so that you can remain IGNORANT of my actual position? Are you not CHOOSING IGNORANCE? Yet in your own self description you say “I don’t tolerate willful ignorance.” Is that a lie, or do you mean to imply without saying so “from anyone else but ME.”?

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      • I do love your ridiculousness, Orange. I can know you lie since I know facts that show you to be a liar. I don’t need to ask questions about things I already know.

        I also know that I haven’t misunderstood you at all. You’ve yet to show that I’ve misunderstood you.

        Yep, you validly exist. So?

        and alas, poor orange, you have yet to show I’m “rude”, whatever that means to you. For most Christians, they try to trot out the whines about a non-christan being “rude” when the non-christian shows that the Christian is lying and that his claims fail.

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      • Again, you say, “No one needs to ask questions to give the poor theist the illusion that his nonsense has some validity.”

        But as an atheist, your religion would teach as one of it’s primary Tenets that NOTHING has value of any kind, as the entire universe and everything it contains comes from nothing, has no purpose, and is going to nothing. What POSSIBLE value could you even HOPE to add to me or anything else with any effort? On atheism, no non-physical value can exist, just as in a universe with no light there cannot be primary colors.

        Doesn’t the idea that a person or a truth HAS VALUE conflict so badly with your religion of Atheism that this can be nothing but an example of you, as an atheist, stealing from the Biblical worldview to make up for the vacuum you understand to exist in your own worldview? Or can you reconcile the idea of intrinsic value with Atheism?

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      • here we have orange trying to lie yet again and equate atheism with nihilism. Happily, they aren’t the same at all. Some atheists are indeed nihilsts but most aren’t. A Christian finds he must lie about atheists since he needs to gin up fear to try to convince others to agree with him.

        Alas, atheism is not a religion at all. It’s a conclusion that a god or gods don’t exists. Orange is an atheist similar to me, believing in one more god than I do.

        Everything in the universe has value and the value assigned is by the human thinking about it. No one needs orange or his god to assign value.

        It’s also so cute to see a Christian being so selfish and greedy, orange. You try to lie that Christianity is the only source of morality, when the golden rule, etc were around long before your ignorant agrarians on the eastern Mediterranean.

        Like

      • First, you need to see this: https://abitoforange.com/2016/06/14/the-15-core-tenants-of-orthodox-atheism/
        Because I am not equating atheism with nihilism, I am merely defining the religion of atheism according to its logical tenets.

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      • aw, and more lies from dear orange. happily, atheists don’t agree with him. He does indeed try to equate nihilism with atheism and lies that he is only using “logic”. I do love a Christian who chooses to lie and not follow the directions of his god.

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      • “Orange is an atheist similar to me, believing in one more god than I do.”
        I also believe that JFK only had one assassin, as opposed to a person that believes that he died of natural means, perhaps because of trying to hold in a fart, burp and sneeze at the same time. If you want to label that as “atheism” then, well, you clearly haven’t thought about this at all. But way to mindlessly latch onto those bumper-stickers of atheist nonsense you find on the internet. They rely on people like you.

        A few more tiny, little differences between believing in ONE God as opposed to NONE:
        YOU think the universe is an accident caused when NOTHING exploded.
        I Believe it had a cause outside of itself with the properties to make it.
        YOU think the mechanical complexity in every living cell fell together despite every law of physics and chemistry working to stop it.
        I think the obvious fingerprints of design are from a designer.
        YOU think the language in DNA, and the complex instructions contained there in were accidentally written by a mindless process that, all things considered, SHOULD have simply degraded the first DNA strand out of existence.
        I think language comes from a mind, and that information comes from a mind.
        YOU think morals are subjective and constantly changing (yet still SOMEHOW able to get “better”?)
        I think morals are laws from the one who made us, based both on his purpose in creating us and His character.
        YOU think inevitable death will be a blinking out of existence, as your brain rots and is eaten by worms and bacteria.
        I think death will be like taking off the Oculus 2 headset once the game is over.
        YOU have no foundation for any non-physical values, yet you still have a blog of your own and come here to critique my subjective morals.
        I think you are an eternal soul, make in the image of God, and someday to stand before Him either has his child, or as his willing, rebellious enemy, so to either be ushered into eternal life with him or eternal death apart from Him. So while I don’t make any money doing this, I have a reason to think it is a valuable expenditure of my time and efforts.
        You are merely ignoring your cat to argue with a total stranger.
        The reason why, you still have not made clear to me. But let me offer a reason:

        You know God exists, and you know it is the God revealed in the Bible. You know that you are one failed heartbeat away from hell, and that if you die in your sleep tonight that you will wake up in hell tomorrow, because you are a sinner who spits in the face of God and who has nothing but hate and contempt for God and his people.

        Atheism is a religion SO STUPID that LITERALLY NO ARGUMENT CAN BE MADE IN ITS FAVOR, but like every other atheist on the internet, you think that if you hate Christians enough, then you can convince yourself that atheism is rational. You think if you can somehow make one of us sound the slightest bit in doubt, that you can somehow convince yourself that, if you die in your sleep tonight- a possibility more and more likely every day- that you won’t wake up at all, all the while KNOWING that you would wake up in hell.

        You come here to attack people like me because you want DESPERATELY to believe that atheism is true, and you think that your attempt to justify your hate of me, or your attempt to throw SOME accusation which you think I cannot answer will give you enough faith to hold onto your atheism as if it was somehow rational, all the while knowing it is not. I’m not telling you anything that you don’t already know.

        You know there is right and wrong.
        You know life is better than death.
        You know truth is better than lies.
        You know that you are fearfully and wonderfully made.
        You know that the universe was not made by nothing, from nothing and for nothing.
        You know that God is in heaven and that you are his enemy because YOU have chosen to hate HIM.
        You know that you are going to hell, and you come here to attack me because you want to maintain your ignorant faith.

        I’ve been asking you to justify to me why you come here to call me names and call me a liar and tell me I’m an idiot. Here’s the reason- you come here because you need ME to give you reasons to believe the Atheism you already know to be a lie. But I don’t give you those reasons, and that’s why you’re so angry at me that you’re now calling me hateful name in the third person.
        You come here because you know you are going to hell. And you know you deserve it. You know your sin. You know the sins that no one else knows- the lies you have told. The people you have hurt. The shame you carry and hide. I don’t need to tell you what you already know.

        But what you don’t know is what the good news is that makes people like me Christians who share their faith to the world:
        “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.”- John 3:16

        God loves you, but he respects your choices as a free creature. You can continue to hold onto your hate and ignorance, or you can admit that you are a sinner, open your hands, and accept his love, grace, and forgiveness. Then, maybe you’ll be able to sleep better.

        Think about it and let me know what you think.
        We’re almost done here. Let’s end our conversation with some honesty. I think we’d both appreciate that. But at the end of the day, it’s not me you need to be honest with.

        Like

      • wow, a dozen posts. A shame that not one was coherent.

        I do enjoy when he shows just how ignorant he is about basic science and what I believe in.

        this is lovely “YOU think the language in DNA, and the complex instructions contained there in were accidentally written by a mindless process that, all things considered, SHOULD have simply degraded the first DNA strand out of existence.”

        again, orange is willfuly ignorant about the science he attacks. This is needed since he can’t actually attack the real science. He wants to claim his god made DNA. Now, funny how DNA fails constantly, showing this god is evidently an idiot.

        Then he tries the good ol’ “God loves you” nonsense, which isn’t supported by his bible. I always love when Christians lie about their bible to someone who has read it. Unfortunately, his claim that this god “respects” choice, is shown to be a lie repeatedly in Exodus, where this god finds it must control the pharoah so it can show off, in Joshua so it can commit genocide, and both Jesus and Paul say this god has long ago chosen who it will allow to accept it, damning the rest for no fault of their own.

        Alas, poor dear orange can’t even show what a sin even is, since Christians can’t agree on what their god wants. Add this to the fact that orange can’t do what Jesus promised his true followers would be able to do, and it seems that orange is just a fraud.

        I don’t have to make an argument in atheism’s favor. I just have to point out that there is no evidence for any gods.

        Like

      • So, you can write this kind of thing, “wow, a dozen posts. A shame that not one was coherent.
        I do enjoy when he shows just how ignorant he is about basic science and what I believe in.”
        and still think that when I say, Don’t Be Rude, I am saying I don’t want you to prove me wrong? it doesn’t occur to you that maybe this kind of childish, grade school nonsense is what I mean? Because this is exactly what I mean.
        You can see it, right? I mean, I don’t mind the rudeness nearly as much as I worry that you are actually incapable of realizing that you’re being rude. it makes me worry about you.
        And you’re still taking about me in the third person as if anyone else is going to read this exchange. Have you seen my views? We’re not exactly TRENDING around here. It’s just you and me, kiddo. Feel free to talk to me directly.

        Like

      • and here we go again. Poor dear orange, i have shown how you are wrong, and its so sweet that you can’t show that you are right. I dont’ need to show exact instance since you can’t show that your claims are true.

        Poor dear failure who tries to hide his lies and ignorance behind whines about being “rude”. He thinks that showing him a liar and a failure to be rude. Darn.

        I know when I’m rude, and I delight in it when it is appropriate. I could call you some entertaining names. I dont’ need to in order to show you as a failure.

        Nope, no one cares about your blog, dear. I’m entertaining myself in showing how a Christian fails. I don’t need an audience to do that.

        Like

      • If you COULD call me some “entertaining” names, then I wish you would.
        Being called a liar for no reason kind of lost it’s charm after the first few hundred times.

        Like

      • funny how you are called a liar because you lie, about me and about your religion. I’m sure being shown for what you are has indeed “lost its charm”. I do enjoy watching a Christian ignore his god.

        Like

      • QUOTE ME and EXPLAIN. What did I SAY that was a lie, and why was it a lie?
        Again, according to our rules, this is required, and this fart-in-my-car style name calling posts will no loner be tolerated.
        Do better or don’t bother. Thank you.
        -The management

        Like

      • The Great One has spoken and said thus: “QUOTE ME and EXPLAIN. What did I SAY that was a lie, and why was it a lie?”

        I have not. I have been afraid. I’ll quote you now, wise one, unworthy as I am.

        The Great One has said: ““YOU think the language in DNA, and the complex instructions contained there in were accidentally written by a mindless process that, all things considered, SHOULD have simply degraded the first DNA strand out of existence.””

        TRUTH- for it is the creation myth of my religion. The Great orange Speaks TRUTH.
        Silly and irrational as it is, my faith teaches that the language in DNA, and the complex instructions contained there in were accidentally written by a mindless process- though when one considers the laws of chemistry, it is funny how it would not work that way, so yep, atheism is a science hating religion. Atheism is fallible, and fails often. Orange tries to claim that it is somehow the product of some perfect being. If only I were wise enough to listen… but SCIENCE is HARD. Name calling and hate are SO much easier.

        Here’s another set of beautiful truths spoke by the great one.

        “You know that you are fearfully and wonderfully made.
        You know that the universe was not made by nothing, from nothing and for nothing.
        You know that God is in heaven and that you are his enemy because YOU have chosen to hate HIM.
        You know that you are going to hell, and you come here to attack me because you want to maintain your ignorant faith.”

        Tragic how I don’t know any of this and I do know that orange is never wrong.
        Even my cat tires of my irrational ranting. He will probably run away the first chance he gets. Who could blame him?

        Like

      • Clubby, you crazy cat lady, it’s been a hoot, but I feel like you may have said everything that you have to say. Both of them.
        I am going to leave you with a couple of unfortunate yet true facts about both of us which I discovered today. We’ll start with me:

        Sometimes my brain is Swiss Cheese. My recall is so bad that sometimes I have to say, “It’s a good thing I’m creative or I’d be pretty sure that I’m an idiot!” And I like to follow it with “Ha Ha!” so people don’t take it too seriously.

        I have a hard time remembering things like people’s names. I’m TERRIBLE with names. They DO not stick in my memory, and usually I don’t even notice. Which brings us to you. When you started leaving comments on my recent articles, and I decided you were a female (because I needed more female readers) I not only had no idea that you were actually female, but it wasn’t until AFTER I called you a “crazy Cat lady in training” that I visited your blog and discovered that you were not only female, but also a cat owner. Apparently even when I am being snarky I am incapable of being wrong. Not surprising, I know. But I digress. The point is, I did not remember that I had seen your name before. I thought you were new to the blog.

        But today I was going through the archives looking for previous material to use for an upcoming series and I found comments I had written to you previously which I had TOTALLY forgot about. I had NO IDEA you had been around my comments section for anything more than this calendar year. But I have comments from and to you dating way back. For example, I said this to you:

        “Welcome once again Clubby,
        I don’t know if you’re just lonely or a glutton for punishment, but here you are again, and entirely wrong again. BUT! Not merely calling me a liar. This is a refreshing change of pace. I honestly didn’t think you had anything else to say.”
        Apparently all you did back then was call me a liar. So, it’s no wonder my brain spent zero cells remembering you, since you had nothing to say.

        And on the same comment thread was another commenter who said this about you:
        “I vacated Clubenstein’s blog quite awhile ago. As you have perceived, she responds to earnest dialogue with “you’re a liar”. That’s it.
        It is dreadfully dull unless you turn it into a drinking game. Every time she accuses you of lying, you do a shot. Every time she claims to be “amused”, you chug a beer. You’ll be too drunk to type by the time you finish reading her first paragraph. She won’t notice though.”

        And do you know when these were written? Can you guess? Go ahead and guess.
        Did you guess?
        NOPE! It was 2018! You’ve been a one trick pony for YEARS AND YEARS! “It’s REALLY FUNNY that YOU’R A LIAR… ” and “I LOVE it when stupid Christians LIE about blah blah blah…” And in ALL THAT TIME, you still do nothing but smugly pretend you know enough to mock Christians (you don’t), and mistake your CONSTANT accusations of “liar” for making an argument (they aren’t). It’s PATHETIC! You’ve made NO reasoned arguments about anything ANYWHERE IN MORE THAN HALF A DECADE! You have WASTED YEARS making yourself look ridiculous because of your bitterness and hate! YOU are a DRINKING GAME! You are a stereotype. You are a punchline. “It’s REALLY FUNNY how atheists can never tell the truth even when you ask them an honest question. You fail again.”

        See? I can do it too. What do I need you for? You’re a one trick pony and I have learned your trick! And I’m not even a PONY!

        So while you have farted in my car enough to provide material for literally dozens of upcoming articles about Roach Clowns and how atheism is allergic to reason, I’ve decided that four years of your nonsense is enough. You have not said anything new or anything worth reading in YEARS and I no loner think it likely you are capable of doing so. I don’t even believe you want to. You want to bully people on line, but you lack the courage to do it well, and you lack the education to do it well, so you fall back on the two tricks that you think make you look KIND OF Smart, apparently unaware that they REALLY do not make you look smart. They make you a joke, and not a funny one.

        “It’s REALLY funny how atheists think that taking a mocking tone doesn’t make them look stupid.”
        Wait, I can do another one: “It’s REALLY funny how you think calling other people a liar covers the fact that you are a liar who doesn’t know enough to participate in the conversation.”
        Hang on, one more: “Your accusations and name callings are all paper thin lies, my dear, and the more you try to accuse others of lying, the more obvious it is that you know lies are all you have to contribute. You fail again, and you have failed since the beginning.”

        Not. Even. A. Pony. Impressed? I know you are. You don’t have to say it.

        You are full of hate, meanness, and you do NOT WANT the truth, so this is not the place for you. I shall release you into the night sky of the internet like a flock of doves, to poop on other blogs, to fart in other cars, to call people liars and constantly pretend you are AMUSED by their FAILURES in place of making reasoned arguments, answering honest questions, being polite, or accidentally learning anything.

        Well, that about wraps it up. Don’t ever comment here again. You’ve said the only two things you have to say, and you’ve said it for years. You are done, and the kitchen is closed. Time for you to move on.

        But I will know, in my heart, that, somewhere, no matter the topic or arguments or evidence or reasons you are presented with, you will think it “really funny” how the person you are talking to is “a liar.” Because if history has taught us anything, it’s that you have literally nothing else to say.
        Goodbye!

        Like

      • You say, “orange is willfuly ignorant about the science he attacks.”
        But you offer no reason why I am wrong, and not even a position different from mine with which to compare.
        So, all you did here was say, “YOU’RE STUPID!”
        Which is not an argument.
        You know that’s not an argument, right?

        Like

      • I have offered reasons why you are wrong, orange. It’s so funny that you demand I show exact instance, and then when I do, you claim I’m not right. How sweet. Yep you are stupid, and I show how.

        Like

      • Wait… I am stupid?
        Oh, many here I was thinking YOU were the stupid. But… I mean, if it’s Me that’s stupid…
        I guess all of your vague accusations and undefended blanket assertions MUST be true.
        I’m not sure WHAT they are, and you provided NO argument for them, but… I mean, they MUST be true if you’ve stooped to name calling.
        Again.

        Signs- rolls my eyes.

        And asking someone to provide a specific example of how their accusation is legitimate is NOT “funny,” Clubby. It’s common sense.
        You don’t understand humor anymore than you understand religion, philosophy or science, You filthy criminal.

        Like

      • You say, “Then he tries the good ol’ “God loves you” nonsense, which isn’t supported by his bible.” which tells me you either used to be a Calvinist, or you have learned that tiny bit of Bible you think you know from a Calvinist. But… Calvinism is wrong. So, your opinion about what the Bible teaches is wrong. And everything you say here about the Bible is wrong. I don’t know if you’ve read it, but you certainly haven’t understood it. And I don’t think you’ve read it.

        Like

      • and funny how calvinists also claim that god loves people. Poor dear Christians, just can’t agree on the basics and hate each other’s version so much.

        Alas, orange can’t show that his version of Christianity is right or others are wrong.

        and funny how this god fails to meet the standards in 1 Corinthians 13. “4 Love is patient; love is kind; love is not envious or boastful or arrogant 5 or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; 6 it does not rejoice in wrongdoing, but rejoices in the truth. 7 It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.”

        just the boasting in the book of Job shows how this god fails. i’ve read the entire bible a couple of times, as a believer and as not. I konw what it says, and I catch orange lying about it constantly. Alas, calvinists have as many verses to support their version of Christianity as any other version of a Christian does.

        Like

      • “i’ve read the entire bible a couple of times, as a believer and as not.”

        Who’s the liar now, Clubby? Because this is LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES.

        You filthy criminal.

        Like

      • WOAH! I missed this gem the first time through: “funny how DNA fails constantly,”
        I’d love to hear you defend this assertion.
        As someone who is claiming that I’m attacking real science, you certainly can’t toss this out into the night sky like a flock of doves and then just walk away. Let’s hear the case for this. PLEASE, teach me the science.

        Like

      • “WOAH! I missed this gem the first time through: “funny how DNA fails constantly,”

        I’d love to hear you defend this assertion.”

        diseases caused by the failure of DNA:

        Down’s Syndrome
        Alpha-1 antitrypsin deficiency (my family has this in our genome)
        Sickle-cell anemia
        Tay Sachs disease
        thalassemia
        marfan syndrome
        Cystic fibrosis
        hemophilia
        huntington’s disease
        etc.

        orange is a failure.

        Like

      • So you think that something that can be broken down and stop working correctly is not only FAILING constantly, but… not designed?
        So, misspellings prove… books can write themselves?
        So computer errors prove that Windows 10 wrote itself?
        So if my car breaks down, there was no Henry Ford? Automobiles are the product of natural processes over millions of years?
        Is this the kind of unscientific nonsense you need to believe to accept atheism?
        (yes it is)
        I guess Clubby thinks believing science and reason makes one a failure. But that’s typical of a cat slaver and filthy criminal.

        Like

      • “Add this to the fact that orange can’t do what Jesus promised his true followers would be able to do, and it seems that orange is just a fraud.”

        In all seriousness, what does this mean?

        Like

      • and as always, orange either has no idea what his bible says or tries to hope I don’t know.

        Jesus promises all his true followers will be able to do miracles like him. Orange can’t. Now, what would the answer be on why? Is it that orange’s god doesn’t think orange is a christian? Is it that the bible lies? Or is it that orange’s god doesn’t exist?

        Jesus promises that his followers will be able to do miracles like him and have prayers answered with what is asked for, no exceptions, repeatedly:

        Matthew 7:7-11
        Matthew 18:19-20

        funny how no exceptions are mentioned here or in the following.

        Mark 11:22-24
        Mark 16:17-18
        John 12:12-14
        John 15:7
        James 5:13-18

        Like

      • How do you know I can’t?

        Like

      • “I just have to point out that there is no evidence for any gods.”
        And I have to point out that your ignorance is not an argument for atheism. And yet, it seems to be all you have.

        Like

      • and funny how atheism is the conclusion that there is no god or gods, and I can point out that orange has no evidence for his version of the Christian god. Still waiting for evidence his god exists.

        Like

      • Atheism IS FUNNY! It’s so stupid, it’s HILLARIOUS!
        You filthy criminal.
        And let’s all note that Clubby had done NOTHING to prove that she isn’t a criminal. That’s a HUGE admission of guilt.
        Even though LIES are her native language, even Clubby knows she is a filthy criminal.
        Disgusting.

        Like

      • You call me a liar 16 times, but you don’t actually state your position on lies, lying or liars. Are you condemning me as a sinner, or are you praising me at being effective and consistent at creating misinformation so well that you are compelled to comment on it?

        As you are an atheist, you have no transcendent moral code, and so you have no shared foundation on which to condemn me for lying, so I figure it can’t be that. Though you made some obscure reference to God in previous comments, so maybe you think that being a liar and claiming to be a Christian (ten commandments and all) makes me a hypocrite? So are you merely saying I am failing to live up to the God given code which you reject? Surely you aren’t condemning me for failing to obey a God you pretend isn’t there?

        And if it was established that I was both a liar and a hypocrite… so what? On Atheism, how do you pass judgement outside of your own feelings on my conduct? Surely you can’t condemn me as a sinner on YOUR ATHEISM because you think you have proven me to be a liar and a hypocrite? Would this not be the moral equivalent of saying “I observe that you are LESS than seven feet tall, and that your eyes are NOT BLUE?”

        Does your criticism of me not force you to abandon the worldview of Atheism as impotent and force you to borrow from the Biblical worldview in order that you might condemn me? Otherwise, when you call me a liar, could I not reply (in essence) with “It is true that I am less than seven feet tall.” And be done with it?

        Like

      • poor orange, he has no transcendent moral code, only what he has made up and then lies, claiming that some god agrees with him and only him.

        Happily, all morals are subjective. They can get better, and they do, when humans ignore the ignorant and vicious morals invented by humans a couple of thousand years ago. These humans invented a god that agreed with them, just like orange has, so this god has no problems with killing children, committing genocide, and slavery.

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      • 1. You haven’t answered my question.
        2. If all morals are subjective, as you claim, then on what basis do you judge between them to say one is “better” than another?
        3. Are you condemning god for “killing children”? You didn’t strike me as the pro life/anti-abortion type. Maybe we have found a point of agreement?

        Like

      • and a lie again, tsk.

        I can judge morals on what causes the least harm. try again.

        Alas, abortion isn’t killing children. That’s what your god does repeatedly. Remember David’s son?

        Like

      • WHAT? Clubby calling me a LIAR?!?!? I did NOT see that coming.
        Oh, wait, no, that was a lie for once. I’ll bet you didn’t see that coming!
        But, no, you cannot “judge morals on what causes the least harm” because you are assuming that causing the least harm is the moral thing to do. But what basis does Atheism have to assert that as a fact? After all, every time you take an antibiotic, you kill MILLIONS of living things. Are you “causing the least harm” when you commit genocide every time you get a bad cold?

        And I’m not even going to debate you on Abortion being child murder. That is literally ALL it is.

        Like

      • and again orange is incoherent and a liar.

        alas, for orange, I can indeed judge morals depending on harm. No one needs his god or him to decide what is moral.

        I do love how orange now equates killing bacteria with humans. Alas, genocide isn’t defined as killing bacteria. It is defined as killing humans and gee, his god supposedly did this repeatedly. How nice.

        poor orange, he has nothing so he runs from debating me on abortion. He has nothingto show that it is “child murder” at all. Alas, no children are involved. However, his god repeatedly murders (kills for no reason or kills for benefit of one’s self) children. I guess, that must be bad for this god to do, per orange himself.

        Like

      • Once again CLUBBY, the cat enslaving criminal is hilariously avoiding logic and reason to spew nonsense. I’ve shown over and over that someone with her disgraceful criminal background has NO PLACE in a conversation about morality, and yet here she is, prattling on and on with nonsense that NO ONE will bother to read. Not even her slave cat. If she didn’t have ignorance, she would have nothing to share.
        Keep making us laugh, you filthy criminal.

        Like

      • where did I avoid logic and reason? I’ll be waiting. Now, we have orange trying to claim that I’m a criminal. Can he support such bearing of false witness? Nope.

        Like

      • QUOTE ME and EXPLAIN. What did I SAY that was a lie, and why was it a lie?
        Again, according to our rules, this is required, and this fart-in-my-car style name calling posts will no loner be tolerated.
        Do better or don’t bother. Thank you.
        -The management

        Like

      • Let’s talk about you “OWNING” A CAT.

        First, you have enslaved an animal against its will so that it will know only the space, food, and experiences YOU have chosen for it. So Cruel. So UNNATURAL.

        Second, you let this animal POOP IN YOUR HOUSE, and no doubt anyone who is not numb to it will smell its feces the moment they step into the place where you eat and sleep! Filthy and Disgusting.

        Third, I don’t like cats. I find them rude and selfish, murderous creatures who kill for sport. And I am allergic. They are unpleasant to be around, which tells me all I need to know about the type of people who trap them (against their will) in their houses. *laughs* Cat “Owners”…

        Forth, I hate radishes. While not ipso facto directly linked to cats per se, the fact that you “own a cat” tells me that you are the kind of person who likely buys and eats radishes- an activity so vile and wicked that the rainbow flag doesn’t even have a stripe for people like you. Appalling. Perverse.

        I find it hilarious that you can be this kind of radish munching animal slaver in a poop scented house, and yet you think you have the right to condemn ANYONE else for the comparatively TINY sins of lying and hypocrisy! Even if you COULD prove that I am a dishonest hypocrite- AT LEAST I am not some Cat Owning Radish Eater!

        [pause for dramatic effect]

        And Scene.

        Whew! I think that went really well. Just like we rehearsed it!
        How did it feel? I thought it got really tense for a minute there, but in a good way! Right? Dramatic!
        Ok, let’s take a breath and think about what we just read.

        *hums as much of Beethoven’s 5th as he can remember*

        Anyway, let’s talk about it together now that we’ve had a second to digest our experience. I have an important question I need you to think through and answer for me, but first I need to set the groundwork for my question so it makes sense-

        To start with, my cousin has a cat named Clyde which is one of my favorite animals on earth, as he is chatty, sweet, and chill. Though I probably am allergic to him. So I don’t actually hate all cats. Clyde is the only one I actually know personally right now, and I love him. And he loves me.

        But you do need to change that litter box regularly, because you get used to it. Your friends and family don’t so… I’m just saying. Stay on top of that. But I digress.

        Let’s talk about the MORAL question I have raised. Consider the following:
        1. First, it is incompatible with Christian teaching to condemn either the having of pets (including cats) or the eating of radishes, so it would not be logically possible to say that a stance against cats or radishes is founded on my being a Christian. Those positions would be entirely divorced from my Christianity.

        2. Morality is based on the Character and decree of God, as He is the creator, King and Judge of all creation. We are made in His image, and so it is HIS IMAGE that determines if we are good or bad- just as it is my face that determines if a picture of me is a “good” picture or a “bad” picture. The photo cannot decide that it is both “good” while being significantly different from me, because it was created with the purpose of being my image. It either succeeds or fails. We similarly succeed or fail at being the image of God by choosing to be like Him or choosing NOT to. When Jesus claims to be truth, he is also reminding us that we are to shun lies and embrace the light of truth because we are made to be like Him.

        3. I don’t have the right to add to or subtract from GOD’s moral framework, revealed to us in the Bible, any more than a selfie can be a good picture of me while arbitrarily deleting one of my eyes or making my nose green. I can no more say it’s wicked to own a cat than I can say it’s acceptable to kill my neighbor and have sex with his wife. And as God has condemned lying, if you were to prove I have lied, it would be to prove I have sinned against God by failing to be in His image. I cannot reasonably decide that I reject one of God’s laws- and again this is because His laws are based on his unchanging character, and because my purpose for existing is to be an image of HIM.

        4. All transcendent standards need a source which is in authority over those who are expected to obey it. The speed limits around my house are enforced by the police and created by the law makers who rule the place I live. I have to obey those speed limits or there are consequences. By contrast, imagine us on the moon in moon buggies. Do I have the right to tell you how fast you can drive? Does anyone? No. There is no government which rules over the moon, and so no laws can be made that govern the speed limits on the moon. You can drive as fast as you want, just as you can decide if you want to have a cat or eat radishes.

        5. My disdain for radishes (that part was true, I find them disgusting) is like the speed limit on the moon. I have a strong feeling about how gross radishes are, and I refuse to eat them, but CAN that translate into a rule that YOU are obligated to obey? Obviously not. There is no rational basis by which I can say, “I don’t like radishes, therefore YOU shouldn’t eat them.”

        Superficially similar and yet importantly differently, I could say “I like chocolate, and so every living thing should eat and enjoy chocolate.” The difference here is that, not only am I overstepping my bounds by insisting that MY FEELINGS become rules for others, but if you fed chocolate to your cat, it would be HARMFUL to him, and so even if he enjoyed the taste, it should be forbidden if you care for his well being. Even if I could prove that your cat LOVES THE TASTE and it makes him HAPPY to eat it, knowing that it will cause long term harm is reason enough for you to forbid the short term pleasure for the long term happiness and health and well being.

        6. In summary:
        A. Personal feelings, no matter how strong or popular, are not transcendent moral laws.
        B. Laws are given by an authority which has the right to govern, and the responsibility to govern.
        C. As the Creator and King of the universe, who made us with specific purposes, God has the right and responsibility to put laws over us both to protect our long term good, and to help us fulfill our purpose for existing.
        D. The responsibility to put laws over those being governed is built on long term peace, health and wellbeing, and not on momentary pleasure.

        THEREFORE: Because lying leads to broken relationships and long term harm, God rightfully forbids it with no regard to whether we might enjoy misleading others. Because it is His right and responsibility to govern his creation, and because He made us to be His image, and because he hates lies and He is love and truth, God says, “You Shall NOT LIE.”

        I said all of that to ask you this:
        As an atheist, how do you condemn lying? What makes it WRONG?

        Like

      • and orange shows himself to be an incoherent idiot as usual.

        I do love when a Christian declares that his god is the source of morality, when each Christian has a contradictory morality that he assigns to this same god. Unsurprisingly, each Christian makes his god in his very own image, needing to pretend that soem magical powerful being agrees with him and only him.

        It’s even better when a Christian like orange claims that the bible is some “moral framework” and he himself ignores those moral commandments that he doesn’t like. He “adds” and “subtracts” from the bible constantly, like every other Christian. He just makes up excuses why he doesn’t have to follow those bits that are inconvenient for him.

        Happily, no one needs orange, or his god that he’s invented, to be a moral standard. Morals are subjective and change by culture and over time. They can get better and no one needs to be stuck with the ignorant and vicious morals invented by people a couple of thousand years ago.

        “A. Personal feelings, no matter how strong or popular, are not transcendent moral laws.”

        there is no evidence for “transcendent moral laws”, just lies from various kinds of theists who need a job for their imaginary friends.

        “B. Laws are given by an authority which has the right to govern, and the responsibility to govern.”

        yep, this is quite true. Funny how there is nothing to show a god exists, much less has a right or a responsibility to govern anything at all. Authorities are simply us humans.

        “C. As the Creator and King of the universe, who made us with specific purposes, God has the right and responsibility to put laws over us both to protect our long term good, and to help us fulfill our purpose for existing.”

        as noted before, no evidence for orange’s version of the Christian god or any version of it. Christians do not agree on what parts of the bible laws they want to follow, and cannot show that their selection is god approved.

        “D. The responsibility to put laws over those being governed is built on long term peace, health and wellbeing, and not on momentary pleasure.”

        funny how orange also can’t show that this is true at all, and as usual, he simply cherry picks his bible to agree with his own very subjective morality.

        “THEREFORE: Because lying leads to broken relationships and long term harm, God rightfully forbids it with no regard to whether we might enjoy misleading others. Because it is His right and responsibility to govern his creation, and because He made us to be His image, and because he hates lies and He is love and truth, God says, “You Shall NOT LIE.”

        Nothing shows that this god has anything to do with “love” or “truth”. Each Christian, including orange, claims that only their version is the truth, and gee, they can’t even convince each other, much less other types of theists or non-theists. Alas, poor orange’s god can’t even come up to the half-decent description of love in 1 Corinthians. Its behavior literally contradicts almost every quality that love is claimed to have. It’s even more fun when this god pals around with its supposed archenemy and “great deceiver”.

        “I said all of that to ask you this:
        As an atheist, how do you condemn lying? What makes it WRONG?”

        and poor orange is still a failure. I can condemn lying since I have morals, which are indeed subjective, that says that lying removes the ability of people to make informed decisions and since informed decisions are how we accurately interact with reality, lying to someone is selfish and harmful.

        it’s also always good for a Christian to not know that his god lies to humans when convenient. I know that orange will try to claim otherwise, or that since this god is powerful, aka “the creator and king of the universe” this god can do whatever it wants, showing that orange has no more morals than might equals right.

        Like

      • “and orange shows himself to be an incoherent idiot as usual.”

        But by “Don’t be Rude” what I REALLY mean is, “Don’t show me that I’m wrong.”
        Got it.

        Like

      • ““and orange shows himself to be an incoherent idiot as usual.”

        But by “Don’t be Rude” what I REALLY mean is, “Don’t show me that I’m wrong.”

        Got it.”

        Nice of you to admit this, Orange.

        Like

      • “each Christian makes his god in his very own image”
        Feel free to show me where I have done this, if you think I have. Otherwise, this is exactly what I mean by an “unsubstantiated blanket assertion.”

        Like

      • Unsurprisingly, orange makes his god in his image since he is sure that he is the only Truechristian(tm), and that this god agrees with his view of morality, and no other christian’s. Alas, orange can’t demonstrate this at all and there are billions of Christians who disagree with him.

        Like

      • this nonsense isn’t worth responding to, so I shan’t.

        Like

      • “this nonsense isn’t worth responding to, so I shan’t.”

        aka orange has nothing to show I’m wrong

        Like

      • I have LOST COUNT of how many times I have shown her to be wrong, but here the cat enslaving LIAR is once again, entertaining us with her SAD, PATHETIC LIES!
        I guess you’re just allergic to truth, aren’t you, you filthy criminal?

        Like

      • funny how you’ve not shown me to be wrong once. I do love how you think your god is okay with your lies, orange. It’s great to see you are an atheist too.

        Like

      • QUOTE ME and EXPLAIN. What did I SAY that was a lie, and why was it a lie?
        Again, according to our rules, this is required, and this fart-in-my-car style name calling posts will no loner be tolerated.
        Do better or don’t bother. Thank you.
        -The management

        Like

      • “orange claims that the bible is some “moral framework” and he himself ignores those moral commandments that he doesn’t like. He “adds” and “subtracts” from the bible constantly”

        Once again, show me where I have done this. Or admit that you know this is a lie.

        Like

      • again, how many people have you killed for working on the sabbath? funny how you ignore those moral commandments.

        Like

      • Like, officially? Like, ON the record? Or including in my free time? And including accidents or only those I intended to kill?
        You need to be specific if you want an answer.

        Like

      • and yet again, poor orange tries to dodge the question and demonstrates that he doesn’t follow the christian god at all. No wonder poor orange can’t do what Jesus promised to his true followers.

        Like

      • I’ll just assume that you have not yet read all of my most recent comments.
        I’m setting boundaries- one of which is Don’t Be Rude.
        You can make an argument to PROVE I am a liar, but you are not allowed to merely call me a liar.
        Reasoned disagreement is welcome. Childish name-calling is not.

        Like

      • “He just makes up excuses why he doesn’t have to follow those bits that are inconvenient for him.”

        One again, show me where I have done this or admit that it is a lie.

        Like

      • ““He just makes up excuses why he doesn’t have to follow those bits that are inconvenient for him.”

        “One again, show me where I have done this or admit that it is a lie.”

        so, orange how many people have you killed for working on the sabbath?

        Like

      • Like, all together or just this year?

        Like

      • and again, nice dodge of a failed Christian.

        Like

      • I’ll just assume that you have not yet read all of my most recent comments.
        I’m setting boundaries- one of which is Don’t Be Rude.
        You can make an argument to PROVE I am a liar, but you are not allowed to merely call me a liar.
        Reasoned disagreement is welcome. Childish name-calling is not.

        Like

      • But of course in seriousness, some atheist website told you that THE OLD TESTAMENT LAW says to kill people who violate the sabbath, and since CHRISTIANS DON’T DO THAT, THEY’RE ALL LIARS!!!
        Right?
        And then you did NO homework on what the Church’s answer to this objection is? Because, what, you think we’ve never heard it?
        And you think we haven’t heard the bit about eating shrimp and bacon?
        We have.
        Would you like to know why your question is based on a false assumption? Would you like to know the little bit of Jewish law that makes sense of this all without all of Christian history being nothing but liars who refuse to give up bacon? I have an answer. A reasonable one based on the clear teachings of the Bible in both the old Testament Law and the New Testament teachings.
        Or did you merely intend to communicate to me that you hate me?
        Because, yes, I got that. I know.

        Like

      • and here again we have orange being incoherent and a liar.

        I do love how christians make excuses on what commandments they want to pretend they need to follow and which ones they can ignore since they are inconvenient. Alas, Jesus himself supposedly said that *all* of this god’s laws are to be followed, no exceptions.

        as usual, orange, and many Christians, find they must ignore Jesus, and worship Paul. Most self-proclaimed Christians are Paulianinsts, which is great since Paul is such a great anti-christ, contradicting Jesus many times.

        Like

      • Once again, Clubby, asking questions would be a GREAT tool for you, because here all you are doing is putting your hate and ignorance on display.
        You’ve done no homework outside of the atheist echo-chambers which spread nonsense, and having been told that there is a reasoned answer, you don’t even think to ask what it is.

        Is TRUTH of any value to you?

        Your ignorance is not an argument. You are wrong. VERY wrong about everything you have said here. You need to educate yourself, and you need to start with the humility it takes to admit that there are things you do not know. Until then, there is nothing I can do for you. IF you want me to answer you and explain my position, ask me questions. But I will not validate any more of your childish name calling. I CAN answer all of this, but I won’t waste my time until you give SOME evidence of being willing to learn by having the humility to ask questions instead of throwing out more unsubstantiated blanket assertions based on lies and ignorance.

        Like

      • “Morals are subjective and change by culture and over time.”

        So if I decide it’s now morally right for me to kill your cat with a hammer and eat him while you watch, your feelings AGAINST this would be merely subjective? You would not believe that I had done anything ACTUALLY WRONG? Or is this a lie?

        Like

      • yep, they would be subjective and I would believe you did something wrong. Why wouldn’t I? Nice fail, orange!

        Like

      • Ok Clubby, now listen carefully:
        You have agreed that my killing your cat with a hammer would be SUBJECTYIVELY wrong TO YOU. Meaning, YOU would have feelings of BAD (sad, angry, etc) but you admit that calling it WRONG is only what YOU believe/feel, and not an OBJECTIVE FACT about what I have done.
        This is exactly like ME deciding that I am angry or sad because you are eating radishes. Or because you own a cat.
        Imagine that MY level of bad feelings are somehow EXACTLY the same as your bad feelings.
        Would you have the right to tell me it is WRONG to kill your cat? Would I have the SAME right to tell you it is WRONG to own that cat and eat radishes? If right and wrong are based on our feelings, and we feel the same, then we would have an equal right to impose our feelings on each other as moral decrees- which may be no right at all as it turns out.

        What you’ve described so politely as “nice fail” is actually you stumbling on the very point I am making- Atheism offers NOTHING to ground actual objective morality. You have your feelings and I have mine, but neither of us has an objective standard by which to say our feelings about these matters are accurate descriptions OF those matters.

        When I say “You can’t drive 80mph in a school zone,” I am NOT appealing to how I feel, but rather to the LAW over us both. Even if I WANTED you to drive 80 in a school zone, it would still be illegal.
        When I say “You shall not murder,” I am appealing to the law over us both. Even if I WANTED you to murder someone, and it was LEGAL for you to do so, it would be wrong because there is a law above our law. This was the very appeal that logically HAD to be made to condemn the Nazis at the Nuremberg trials. All of their acts of oppression and genocide were ENTIRELY LEGAL, and (at least among themselves) what was agreed to be the RIGHT thing to do- not just acceptable mind you, but (on the Nazi’s evolutionary worldview) actually GOOD- a series of actions which would lead to a BETTER world with the greatest human flourishing and least amount of harm for all who still lived for generations to come. That is what they believed, and that is how they justified it to themselves. If there is no law above manmade laws, then on what basis did we condemn the Germans for carrying out the laws made in their country? Merely because we FEEL different than they did?

        When you say “We should do what causes the least amount of harm” what are you appealing to? Natural selection? The laws of physics? No, you are appealing to your own feelings. You FEEL that this ideal would result in the kind of world YOU FEEL would be the BEST (meaning the one you would FEEL MOST GOOD about). But you have no Atheistic standard by which to say anything ABOUT THOSE POSSIBLE WORLDS.
        On atheism, a world where we cure all disease, and a world where all humans die from the common cold are morally equivalent. I think it reasonable to assert that almost all of us would prefer the first over the latter, but on Atheism there is no logical way to actually assert that one is OBJECTIVELY BETTER than the other, anymore than a person could claim that 35 miles per hour IS THE SPEED LIMIT ON THE MOON, and assert that 45mph is TOO FAST. There is no governing law, no authoritative rule, and nothing but personal feelings based on some personally desired outcome. That is subjective, and it does not create a SHOULD or a SHOULD NOT.

        When you say, “Killing my cat would be wrong,” it is morally equivalent to saying “I do not like the taste of radishes.” We are talking about the feelings we have about a given subject.
        When I say “Murder is evil,” I am describing a true fact about the act of murder, NOT a fact about my feelings about murder, the same as if I were to say “Lemon Juice is acidic,” or “It is illegal to drive 80mph in a school zone.” It’s a statement of objective fact about something, NOT my feelings about the thing.

        Like

      • and here again we have orange being incoherent and a liar. Yep, morality is subjective, and Christians have all different claims on what morality their god wants. Alas not one Christian can show that their god exists or agrees with them morally.

        Like

      • I’ll just assume that you have not yet read all of my most recent comments.
        I’m setting boundaries- one of which is Don’t Be Rude.
        You can make an argument to PROVE I am a liar, but you are not allowed to merely call me a liar.
        Reasoned disagreement is welcome. Childish name-calling is not.

        Like

      • “as noted before, no evidence for orange’s version of the Christian god or any version of it.”

        You mean as ASSERTED before, without argument or evidence. Either provide support for this claim or admit that it is a lie.

        Also, why are you constantly talking ABOUT me in the third person? I’m RIGHT HERE.

        Like

      • poor orange, still no evidence for his god or that he’s a Christian. I’m talking about him in the third person since he is quite an object lesson on how ignorant and deceitful a Christian can be.

        Like

      • “Morals are subjective and change by culture and over time. They can get better”

        But if GOOD and BAD are subjective, then where is the unchanging and transcendent standard by which to judge them so that you can say they have gotten BETTER or WORSE?
        If our cultural morals change so that everyone except you says I can and should kill your cat with a hammer and eat it, would that make it BETTER?

        Like

      • Yep, good and bad are subjective. And funny how you, orange, have yet to show your god exists at all. No one needs an objective standard, especially your disgusting god.

        and gee, poor orange, still fails. morals can indeed change. And funny how Christianity has changed its morals constantly over time. Happily, poor orange’s sadistic fantasies will never become accepted, and this is why his religion is dying since humans are growing out of such ignorant garbage that depends on fear of some bogeyman.

        Like

      • Well, I certainly have no means of debating this well thought out critique of the Biblical worldview. Certainly, a logical train of thought so foundationally built on evidence and logic must be coming to honest conclusions based on following the argument where it leads. I am beginning to doubt my faith, verily, even my senses.

        Like

      • “Well, I certainly have no means of debating this well thought out critique of the Biblical worldview. Certainly, a logical train of thought so foundationally built on evidence and logic must be coming to honest conclusions based on following the argument where it leads. I am beginning to doubt my faith, verily, even my senses.”

        I know. Thanks for admitting this.

        or, gee, are you lying again, orange? Hmmm, amazing how your god says never to do that. Thanks for showing you have no more belief in your god than I do.

        Like

      • Have you never heard of sarcasm? Because lying and sarcasm are not the same thing.
        Could be worth a Google…

        Like

      • and now the poor failure now tries to claim he was being “sarcastic”. No reason to think that, orange. Nothing indicates that at all.

        ““Well, I certainly have no means of debating this well thought out critique of the Biblical worldview. Certainly, a logical train of thought so foundationally built on evidence and logic must be coming to honest conclusions based on following the argument where it leads. I am beginning to doubt my faith, verily, even my senses.”

        I know. Thanks for admitting this.

        or, gee, are you lying again, orange? Hmmm, amazing how your god says never to do that. Thanks for showing you have no more belief in your god than I do.”

        Like

      • QUOTE ME and EXPLAIN. What did I SAY that was a lie, and why was it a lie?
        Again, according to our rules, this is required, and this fart-in-my-car style name calling posts will no loner be tolerated.
        Do better or don’t bother. Thank you.
        -The management

        PS: Seriously, go get a dictionary and look up “Sarcasm.”

        Like

      • “Funny how there is nothing to show a god exists, much less has a right or a responsibility to govern anything at all. Authorities are simply us humans.”

        Again, you ignore 2,000 years of apologetic arguments and merely ASSERT these things with no defense.
        Either support your assertions or admit that this is a lie.

        Like

      • nope, I know how 2000+ years of apologetics have failed. Not one apologetic claim can be shown true. But if you want to show what you think is the strongest one, we can discuss it. Hmm, will you try the claim that since ancient writers mentioned Christians, that means your god has to exist? Or how about there was an “empty” tomb, even though you can’t even show a tomb or that it was ever “full”?

        And still you, orange, have yet to show any evidence for your imaginary friend.

        Like

      • Well, once again I would like to invite you to check out the free books available on https://abitoforange.com/free-books/ (link at the top of this website) including Proof of God, and Answering Atheism.
        See if you can guess what those books are about!
        That is, I would invite you to check out what I have actually written and made available for free on this very web site BEFORE you go claiming what I have not shown or proven.
        And based on this comment, I would also suggest you check out The Socratic Ducky. It might be a lot of help to you. And again, they’re all free.

        Like

      • no wonder you have to make them free. that’s exactly what they are worth.

        Like

      • I’ll just assume that you have not yet read all of my most recent comments.
        I’m setting boundaries- one of which is Don’t Be Rude.
        You can make an argument to PROVE I am a liar, but you are not allowed to merely call me a liar.
        Reasoned disagreement is welcome. Childish name-calling is not.

        Like

      • “Christians do not agree on what parts of the bible laws they want to follow, and cannot show that their selection is god approved.”

        People argue for different interpretations of the US Constitution. Does this mean that the constitution or the founding fathers who wrote it are imaginary? OR that there is NO EVIDENCE that they existed? Would it prove that the document itself has no meaning and that no one can be right about what it intends to say? Obviously not. So why apply such absurd logical fallacies to the Bible?

        Like

      • Yep, people do indeed argue for different interpretations of the US constitution. Funny how that was never claimed to be an ultimate truth from some magical being.

        lovely fail, orange. Your god does show that it is impotent or imaginary since it can’t get what it means through to all of you self-described Chrsitians, who all contradict each other.

        Like

      • YES, you hate me. I get it.
        OK, let me try this argument again:

        Some people say the earth is flat like a pancake. Some people say it is round like a ball.
        Is the EARTH somehow to blame for the fact that people come to different conclusions?
        Are scientists who say the earth is round just idiots worshipping an impotent planet which can’t convince people that it’s a ball?
        Or could it MAYBE be that people come to different conclusions because of a difference of information, intelligence, and honest desire for the truth?
        Because on your argument here, we should blame the earth and attack the scientists.

        Do scientists all agree 100% with each other on all things? No? I guess they “all contradict each other” too.
        Geeze Clubby. I didn’t know you hated scientists so much.

        Like

      • and here we go again with orange being incoherent and lying.

        alas, poor orange tries yet again to give excuses on why he has nothing to show his claims are true. He has shown no honest desire to know the truth. It’s hilarious to see poor orange lie and try to claim that science doesn’t have evidence to support it, trying to make a false comparison to his failure to show that his god exists.

        I don’t hate scientists at all. orange lies again.

        Like

      • I’ll just assume that you have not yet read all of my most recent comments.
        I’m setting boundaries- one of which is Don’t Be Rude.
        You can make an argument to PROVE I am a liar, but you are not allowed to merely call me a liar.
        Reasoned disagreement is welcome. Childish name-calling is not.

        Like

      • OK, Clubby, for the sake of time and space I need to set some boundaries.
        If you ask an honest question, I will answer it.
        If you give an honest answer, I will read it.
        But if you keep posting nonsense which has nothing to communicate except your own ignorance and hate for me, I will not be sharing it or replying.
        I know, you LOVE to call me a liar. It’s what gets you out of bed. But you’re done. No more.
        And you LOVE to throw in self-superior jabs about how I’m a FAILURE and SO HILARIOUS to you, because you are implicitly SO SUPERIOR to me in every conceivable way, etc.
        But, stop that. When you are here, on my blog, you will behave according to my “No Fart in Car” rules. On your own blog, you can say whatever you like about me. Start every day by writing a Haiku about how I am a cowardly liar. I’ll never complain. But here, you’re a guest. This is my car. When you’re here, you’re only along for the ride.

        This has been useful and entertaining, but your turn to fart in my car is done. Here are the rules from now on:

        1. Stop being rude (by which I mean, feel free to tell me I’m wrong and even make a reasoned case for it, but be NICE and not a JERK when you do it- no name calling, no being hateful and belittling and using emotionally charged language only to communicate hate and disdain, and if you say I have lied, you are required to explicitly say WHAT I have lied about and what makes it a lie. You can PROVE I’m a liar, but you cannot merely CALL me a liar.)
        2. Make a case (as opposed to unsubstantiated blanket assertions. Again, You can PROVE I’m a liar, but you cannot merely CALL me a liar.)
        3. Remember that the validity of an argument is NOT determined by the messenger or medium (or, even if I am a cowardly lying idiot, my position could still be true- so do not attack me or anyone who holds my position, including “all Christians”- straw man, ad hominin etc. are not acceptable)
        4. Ask more questions- as opposed to making these ridiculous, unsubstantiated claims. (As someone who claims to have no tolerance for willful ignorance, I shouldn’t have to convince you of this one. Even if it’s true that you “know something about everything” even you must have the sense to know that you don’t know EVERYTHING about everything. Maybe you might even learn something new. Maybe you might discover you are wrong about something you THINK you know about my worldview. You’ll never know if you don’t ask. But I will no longer tolerate arrogance as a representative for data. MAKE a case. Do not merely assert that a case exists. Those are not the same and will not be treated as the same.)
        5. Or just stop leaving comments on other people’s blogs (this one is the least amount of work, and offers you more time to spend with your cat.)

        Please abide by these rules from henceforth while on this blog. What you do elsewhere is between you, them, and your cat.

        Like

      • and here we go again with orange being incoherent or lying.

        Like

      • I’ll just assume that you have not yet read all of my most recent comments.
        I’m setting boundaries- one of which is Don’t Be Rude.
        You can make an argument to PROVE I am a liar, but you are not allowed to merely call me a liar.
        Reasoned disagreement is welcome. Childish name-calling is not.

        Like

      • showing you wrong isn’t being rude. poor dear orange. since you can’t answer my questions, you try to play the martyr.

        Like

      • QUOTE ME and EXPLAIN. What did I SAY that was a lie, and why was it a lie?
        Again, according to our rules, this is required, and this fart-in-my-car style name calling posts will no loner be tolerated.
        Do better or don’t bother. Thank you.
        -The management

        Like

      • “I can condemn lying since I have morals, which are indeed subjective,”

        1. Look up “Subjective” because this comment is so amazingly stupid that I can’t believe that you know what it means.
        2. What you have said here is, “I have personal, ungrounded feelings.”
        3. So you are claiming to have the right to CONDEM ME, because of YOUR PERSONAL FEELINGS.

        Did you read the bit about cats and radishes? Because that was the whole point of that. Claiming that your personal feelings about something means you have the authority to tell others how they MUST behave is asinine.

        Like

      • funny how orange’s morals are as subjective as mine. He has no idea if his god agrees with him, having no evidence of this. Then he has no problem with his god doing thigns he, hopefully, would be horrified if a human did them. Like, oh killing children.

        This makes orange’s morals subject to who or what someone is, not the objective morality of the action in itself. And like most Christians, your morals, orange, are no more than might equals right.

        thanks for admitting this orange. “laiming that your personal feelings about something means you have the authority to tell others how they MUST behave is asinine.” since that is all your religion is.

        I can at least point out that humans largely agree on morals sincen they do help civilization exist. You have no god behind your nonsense.

        Like

      • You want to talk about who’s a liar? Let’s check out your latest comment:
        “orange’s morals are as subjective as mine.” LIE
        “He has no idea if his god agrees with him” LIE
        “having no evidence of this” LIE
        “Then he has no problem with his god doing thigns” LIE
        “like most Christians, your morals, orange, are no more than might equals right.” TWO LIES
        “that is all your religion is.” LIE
        “You have no god” LIE

        All of these are lies and in previous comments (and entire books available on https://abitoforange.com/free-books/) I have explained why. You are intentionally ignoring all of my arguments or you are simply not smart enough to understand them and you should be asking questions.

        I know I keep saying this, but NONE OF THESE LIES ARE ARGUMENTS. You saying something stupid and wrong with bravado IS NOT AN ARGUMENT.
        You are NOT MAKING A CASE.
        You are NOT DEFENDING A POSITION.
        You are NOT ATTACKING MY POSITION.

        This is nothing but decorated name calling. ALL of this means nothing more than “I don’t understand your position, but you’re wrong and I hate you.” Which I’ve known from the beginning. If this is all you have, then we have nothing to talk about. I know you don’t agree, I know you don’t understand, and I know you hate me. You’ve stated that you refuse to ask questions, and so you have no interest in understanding, and since you have neither the will to learn nor the education with which to teach, all you have to offer is hate. I keep trying to get you to offer more than that, but name calling and decorated name calling is the best you can do.

        I know you hate me. If that’s all you have to say, then clearly the conversation is long past being done.
        Perhaps you could try honestly answering some questions, or maybe even asking a few of your own?

        Like

      • alas, orange can’t show that any god exists, much less agrees with him on morals. Orange’s morals are as subjective as mine until he can show his god exists and agrees with him. In that orange can’t do what Jesus promised to his true followers, orange is just a fraud.

        Like

      • So while I have put out LOTS of videos, articles, and several books covering these very topics, you are content to wallow in your ignorance and continue claiming “orange can’t show” where the truth is “I refuse to see what Orange had to say about…”

        Which makes YOU the liar, Clubby. You are SAYING I cannot prove, but you are actually MEANING YOU refuse to see what I have to say. That is a lie, and not a flattering one for someone who both claims to be “smart” and also claims to have no tolerance for willing ignorance. You are a terrible hypocrite, Clubby, because your behavior here is EXACTLY What willful ignorance looks like.

        YOU embracing your ignorance and then claiming I have made no case for my position is NOT an argument, it is a lie. That you wrap your lies in accusations and petty, childish name calling does not make them an argument. And it will no longer be tolerated.

        I’ll just assume that you have not yet read all of my most recent comments.
        I’m setting boundaries- one of which is Don’t Be Rude.
        You can make an argument to PROVE I am a liar, but you are not allowed to merely call me a liar.
        Reasoned disagreement is welcome. Childish name-calling is not.

        Like

      • orange has put out a lot of videos, etc. That doesn’t mean that what they contain is true. I’ve even watched them and gee, orange fails as usual. he has made no case for his position, only repeatedly long failed apologetic lies.

        poor dear, still lying and claiming that showing him to be wrong is “rude”. Unsurprisingly, that’s what christians do when they have no evidence to support their claims. They try to gaslight others and in orange’s case, fail miserably.

        Like

      • You watched 300 of my videos? Say, that reminds me, you asked me to give an example of you being a liar. Here’s another one.
        But you’re still projecting your own dishonestly here so, let me remind you:
        QUOTE ME and EXPLAIN. What did I SAY that was a lie, and why was it a lie?
        Again, according to our rules, this is required, and this fart-in-my-car style name calling posts will no loner be tolerated.
        Do better or don’t bother. Thank you.
        -The management

        Like

      • “lying to someone is selfish and harmful.”

        Even if we simply assume your ungrounded, personal feelings to somehow reflect reality, so what?
        What makes being selfish and harmful WRONG?
        Maybe YOU FEEL bad feelings about lying, selfishness and harming others, but… so what?
        So far all you have said is, “ORANGE IS EVIL BECAUSE HE DOESN’T HAVE THE SAME FEELINGS ABOUT THINGS THAT I DO!”

        But that’s stupid. Even you must see that.

        Like

      • Empathy, dear orangie.

        and poor dear orange, he lies.

        Like

      • I’ve lost count again. How many times have you called me a liar? About 724, right?
        And yet, how many times have you clearly stated what my lie was? … Zero.
        And how many times have you shown that anything I said was factually false? … Zero.
        And How many times have you proven that I presented false information knowingly (for that is what a lie is, Clubby)… Zero.

        Which means you have given me no reason to think that you really believe I have told ANY lies. Which means you are LYING when you accuse me of lying, making you the actual liar. So how about you stop with the childish, hypocritical name calling and give an honest answer to SOMETHING? Not the rushing off to ignorant atheist websites to cut and paste nonsense. I mean HOENST ANSWERS. So far you have done that…. ZERO.

        Like

      • and orange has yet to show evidence to show that he isn’t a liar.

        I’ve pointed out your lies repeatedly, but nice new lie, orange. You’ve lied about this god agreeing with you on what it considers sin. You have lied about what your bible states about following this god’s commandments. I always love christians who try to claim that they don’t have to follow all of this god’s supposed commandments. Matthew 5 shows orange to be the quite liar.

        Like

      • I HAVE YET TO SHOW EVIDENCE THAT I AM NOT A LIAR?!?!?? HA HA HA HA HA HA! This is HILLARIOUS! HA HA HA!!!!
        Whew! Let me catch my breath for a moment… oh… that is funny…

        You CLAIM I am a liar (over and over and over…)- but DO NOT SPECIFY any lies, let alone demonstrate that what I have specifically said IS a lie, and then you make THIS left field assertion?

        Clubby. Clubby, Clubby, Clubby. Let me try and bring this down to your level a little bit.

        If I say, “Clubby is a criminal,” and you reply, “What crime have I broken?” would it be a valid argument for me to reply with, “CLUBBY has yet to show evidence that she isn’t a criminal.”? Would that be REASONABLE for me to use as an argument against you? If you’re not a complete idiot, you should have immediately replied, “No, that would not be a valid argument.” Did you say No? Was that your response? Asking for a friend.

        Look, I want very much to be polite, but I can think of no word more accurate than “Stupid.” This is a STUPID assertion and I must wonder how you can type something like that and not have the sense to IMMEDIATELY delete it. Maybe you need an editor. Ask that cat of yours to take a look at these things before you post them.
        You have NOT “Pointed out” my lies, Clubby. You have AMBIGUOUSLY accused me of being a liar. THAT IS NOT THE SAME THING.
        “Clubby is a CRIMINAL.” See how that’s not a CASE? See how this is not me “pointing out” your disregard for the law? Can you even tell that it’s not “pointing out” ANYTHING? Because it is not.

        Let’s look at this very comment: “You’ve lied about this god agreeing with you on what it considers sin.”
        HOW? WHEN? WHAT DID I SAY? AND WHAT MAKES THAT STATEMENT A LIE?
        You have answered none of these questions and so have “pointed out” absolutely NOTHING. You have merely ASSERTED an accusation.
        And of what value are your assertions? You are a criminal.

        Again (and I should not have to explain this to an English speaking adult who has not just suffered major head trauma), Merely ASSERTING that I have lied IS NOT THE SAME THING as pointing out 1. a specific lie, and then 2. proving that it is not only FALSE, but 3. KNOWINGLY MISLEADING.

        1, 2, 3, Kiddo. That’s how it works.

        I have NOT LIED, and you have offered NO STATEMENT OF MINE which you have claimed to be false, and you have not done the further work of then proving it not only false, but intentionally misleading. Which means, all of you accusations against me are lies.

        Which makes YOU the liar. And do you see how I have used an actual statement from you, followed by logical argumentation to prove it?
        That’s how it’s done, kiddo.

        And if you are ABLE to do the same in reply, you are welcome to. But this asinine name calling, lying and more name calling is done. We’re setting boundaries.
        You filthy criminal.

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      • and more incoherence. I do love how orange thinks that if he denies something, that means it magically disappears. Alas, I’ve shown orange as a liar repeatedly.

        Like

      • QUOTE ME and EXPLAIN. What did I SAY that was a lie, and why was it a lie?
        Again, according to our rules, this is required, and this fart-in-my-car style name calling posts will no loner be tolerated.
        Do better or don’t bother. Thank you.
        -The management

        Like

      • “it’s also always good for a Christian to not know that his god lies to humans when convenient.”
        You are confusing Christianity for Islam. Maybe do a little more homework before visiting other people’s blogs to tell them you think they are an idiot. Because…
        This sort of easily avoidable error does not paint you in a flattering light. That’s all I’m saying.

        Like

      • and no surprise that orange doesn’t know what his bible says about his god lying.

        “20 And the Lord said, “Who will entice Ahab, so that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?” Then one said one thing, and another said another, 21 until a spirit came forward and stood before the Lord, saying, “I will entice him.” 22 “How?” the Lord asked him. He replied, “I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.” Then the Lord[c] said, “You are to entice him, and you shall succeed; go out and do it.” 23 So you see, the Lord has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these your prophets; the Lord has decreed disaster for you.’” 1 Kings 22

        “11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion, leading them to believe what is false, 12 so that all who have not believed the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness will be condemned.” 2 Thessalonians 2

        “9 If a prophet is deceived and speaks a word, I, the Lord, have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand against him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel. 1” Ezekiel 14

        quite a god you got there.

        Like

      • And you did no homework on this at all.
        I’m going to assume you got this quote from an atheist web site, since lazy ignorance is the currency of those sites, and you have a cherry picked translation and carefully guarded ignorance which allows you to twist the text to fit what you wanted it to say.
        That’s both lazy and dishonest. And you’re calling ME a liar?
        Why don’t you actually look at a NON-Atheist website to see what this says and means. Once you’ve done the honest ounce of homework, I’ll address it, but not until then.

        Like

      • And what homework would show that I’m wrong, orange? Oh yes, none, and it is notable that orange has yet to show any evidence I’m wrong. Alas, I have not cherry picked a translation at all. Hilariously this quote was from biblegateway.com, a Christian website, and from the bible directly. The versions of the bible that read as such are the NASB, the NRSV, the KJV, etc.

        I don’t need to look at anything but the bible. poor orange, he doesn’t trust his god in getting the right meaning out.

        Like

      • Typical cat enslaver. This is exactly the kind of lies one would expect from a criminal like Clubby. You’re so funny when you fail to do anything but lie, you filthy criminal.

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      • Hmm, so this “Typical cat enslaver. This is exactly the kind of lies one would expect from a criminal like Clubby. You’re so funny when you fail to do anything but lie, you filthy criminal.”

        is supposedly a response to what I asked here

        “And what homework would show that I’m wrong, orange? Oh yes, none, and it is notable that orange has yet to show any evidence I’m wrong. Alas, I have not cherry picked a translation at all. Hilariously this quote was from biblegateway.com, a Christian website, and from the bible directly. The versions of the bible that read as such are the NASB, the NRSV, the KJV, etc.

        I don’t need to look at anything but the bible. poor orange, he doesn’t trust his god in getting the right meaning out.”

        Unsurprisingly, orange rails incoherently and doesn’t answer my question, a question that he has claimed I don’t ask. Alas orange can’t show this ‘homework” that shows i’m wrong.

        Like

      • Clubby, Look, I’m not trying to be anymore condescending than I need to be, I know, that’s your thing. But… I really shouldn’t have to explain this AGAIN, but, well, here I go:

        This “incoherent railing” as you so accurately describe it is ME, doing to YOU what you have been doing to ME. I’m almost quoting you back to you.
        I explained that in a previous post. I explained the metaphor BEFORE I started doing this.
        See? The baseless name-calling and accusations in place of reasonable questions or answers? That’s what you have been doing, and I used as the example of what it was like to be ME talking to YOU the hypothetical of me accusing you of being a criminal (with no specified crime, or evidence of wrong-doing on your part) and then asserting that you had failed to provide evidence that you are not a criminal. That is what it has been like to read you calling me a liar over and over and over with no specific lie addressed and no evidence of my being even as much as wrong, let alone intentionally misleading.

        Any of this ringing a bell? Because I literally explained this in detail BEFORE I started answering you in this manner.
        So, yes, it is incoherent nonsense. But it’s YOUR incoherent nonsense. THAT’S WHY I STARTED DOING IT.

        So that finger you’re pointing at me there Clubby? It’s not me. You’re looking into a mirror there kiddo. You’re calling yourself incoherent.
        This COULD be a GREAT learning moment for you. One of those “light-bulb” moments you read about.
        Take a deep breath, and think it over.

        Like

    • OK, this has been fun and all, but now that you’ve been told the rules (See the article you’ve been posting under) I will no longer be tolerating your present violation of said rules.
      You’ve been answered.
      You’ve asked no questions.
      You’ve made accusations without pointing to a specific indicant that would validate your accusations.
      You have made NO EFFORT to show I am wrong.
      You have made NO EFFORT to shot I am dishonest or misleading.
      You have made NO CASE for anything you have said, relying on hazy accusations and name calling, with the CONSTANT condescending mocking tone.
      You have admitted to remaining ignorant on purpose.
      You have admitted to not watching or reading the material I have posted publicly for free to answer your questions and educated your ignorance.
      You have no answers, you have no questions, and you have no understanding of humor of logic. All you have is ignorance and hate.
      So either change the way you comment or stop commenting (See #5 above)

      Thanks! Tell your cat I said “hi!”

      Like

      • The Whyman says:

        Dr. Bob Palindrome’s Lessons in ‘Internet atheist’ reasoning #7:

        My assertion of my viewpoint (based entirely on wishful thinking) equals evidence and my mere denial unequivocally refutes any opposing views that I don’t like (or understand).

        Like

      • What?!?!? Someone cracked the code? Is there a useful internet resource which lists these? That would REALLY come in handy!
        Thanks!

        Like

  3. The Whyman says:

    If one still has a functioning facebook account, they can access a modest list of ‘internet atheist lessons in reasoning’ such as #161: “Spending so much of my time on sites that I hate, with people and policies that I abhor who refuse to be “evangelised” to my belief in the meaninglessness of existence is a sure sign of happiness contentment and sanity”

    https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.568852959810733&type=3

    Like

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